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Wednesday, February 22, 2012

Wednesday's Challenge

In response to yesterday's post, FairAction Fairhaven issued a reply.  Please read the post and comment chain for Fairhaven, The South Coast and More: Part III - Conflict.  It is important you read everything in its entirety.

I had an alternate piece written for today.  After receipt of the response mentioned above, and further reflection, I decided not to run it.  It was a bit more confrontational than this piece, and would have accomplished nothing but to let me blow of steam.

I am always perplexed by the responses from FairAction.  I think that stems from the fact that it seems to me there are multiple persons doing the writing for the group.  There certainly appear to be different styles from comment to comment.  Could just be me. Anyway ....

I for one am content to let Town Meeting have its say on the proposed articles submitted by that group, as apparently so are they.  If need be, I can wait until then to hear the explanations, the specifics.  

What bothers me are articles that "are not bullet-proof but they are reflective of the distaste that reasonable people have to this mistreatment."  If you are serious about making changes, you might in fact want to submit articles that are bullet proof.  They may not pass, but at least if they did, they could be enforceable.  At least something then can be debated on the actual merits alone.

As far as addressing the specific points raised about "potential" conflicts of interest, I can do that.  I can do that fairly easily actually.  Is it going to change your mind?  Doubtful. 

For today, I will simply address the hypothetical questions posted about town employees.  Let's start out with the "implied" solution within the question, the never ending secret ballot proposal.  You want a secret ballot all you need to do is get a 2/3 vote.  You aren't going to be able to change that, even by a new charter, unless you completely revamp the representative town meeting. The law doesn't allow it.

As to adopting the Lexington, non-binding resolution, I have no problem with it.  If you intend to try and make it mandatory, well I am not sure if that can be done in the first instance; and, even if it could, at any given meeting on any given issue how are you going to enforce it unless you have an open vote?

Based on your analogy, this year every single money article will impact town employees.  It is a distinct probability that jobs will be lost this year.  Thus, every town employee, every spouse of a town employee and his or her child and parents who are town meeting members, using the Lexington code should not vote on any spending article.  There are enough small money articles that if defeated, would save someones job.  There are enough big money articles that if defeated will save a lot of jobs.

My question to you, how do we handle this if in fact that code was a binding reality?

I have no problem with you raising issues.  My "bafflement" is based on the fact that for the most part you throw out a whole bunch of stuff using words like potential, may and could. My bafflement is that there is a whole bunch about the problem and very little on the proposed solution.

I too get it once in awhile.  You feel that there are conflicts of interest.  If so, report them.  You or anyone can report them anonymously.  No repercussions, no political payback.  

If I am wrong with what I am about to say, let me know, but it becomes clearer as this discussion goes on that what is desired is an expansion of the existing laws and regulations governing conflicts of interest to prohibit those things which some feel are conflicts but may not be under existing law; and, an entirely different enforcement mechanism.  

If I am correct, is it unreasonable for me or anyone to ask for the details of what it is you are proposing?  What matters do you wish to see added to the current conflict laws?

The ethics article does not provide little as to specifics details except that we elect three people and they draw up a code to be submitted to town meeting.  You must know what you would like to see in such a code?

But if that is the extent of it, okay just say so specifically.  Then the article gets addressed as is.  

You reach a point in every discussion, debate, argument (whatever you want to call it) when the statements, points, and sound bites all simply become redundant. On this particular issue the debate has reached that point.  





7 comments:

  1. I have a request of "FairAction Fairhaven" and that is for the poster to identify who they are, such as "Gwendolyn Smith of FAF" or "Rupert Jones of FAF" when posting. I find it ironic that the discussion of transparency is being engaged by a rather anonymous group of persons. Thank you!

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  2. I would like to second that request. I had posted once on one of the WW/FAF FB pages and had no problem being identified by name b/c I did not direct my comments by name toward anybody in their group. I must have struck a nerve when I wrote that yes, if I were a homeowner in the neighborhood of Arsene St. or a Real Estate agent, I would be researching the effects of turbines on property values. I also stated that I had no further intention in engaging in any more of their ludicrous arguments. Let's face it trying to is tantamount to reasoning with preschoolers having tantrums on a playground. According to someone who reads the WW/FAF FB pages regularly an anonymous member of their group responded by "accusing" me of being obsequious to the school dept and committee. Obviously the poster does not know the meaning of that word or me at all. Whoever it was did not take credit for their ignorance but no matter b/c everyone who knows me had a hearty laugh and just one more reason not to take them seriously. Apparently my post was then removed so anyone following them has no idea what I had written. Their efforts would be comical if they weren't so pitiful. DIANE HAHN 86 FRANCIS STREET, PRECINCT 2, 508-993-6876

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  3. "this year every single money article will impact town employees. It is a distinct probability that jobs will be lost this year. Thus, every town employee, every spouse of a town employee and his or her child and parents who are town meeting members, using the Lexington code should not vote on any spending article. There are enough small money articles that if defeated, would save someones job. There are enough big money articles that if defeated will save a lot of jobs."

    So you think that employees and their families should vote on whether they should keep their own jobs? Only in municipal employment does this happen or is it even thought to be justified. This is not done in the private sector or state or federal public sector. Employers and boards make decisions about employees. They are not one and the same unless one is self-employed. Therefore it does seem a conflict of interest.

    You, yourself in yesterday's post called taxing and budget spending "cold, impersonal, but nonetheless reality." Is that only applicable in certain circumstances?

    Town meeting members, without similar conflicts, are not heartless but can be more impartial about spending taxpayer money in those circumstances.

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  4. Tell me, do you actually block out of your thought process anything written that you do not want to deal with. The text you quote clearly leaves out the "Based on your analogy" reference ("your" being your group in case you could not figure the out).

    You completely ignore the purpose of the statement, and totally ignore the question asked of you. Once again, my question to you, how do we handle this if in fact that code was a binding reality?

    Cold, hard reality is not applicable in only one circumstance, yet I would like to know how you intend to apply the cold, hard reality? Just saying do it doesn't answer how you are going to do it?

    Is the best you can do is come back with distortions? Can you for once, provide an answer to a question?

    There have been numerous questions asked of you seeking specific answers, by numerous people, which you simply avoid. You won't be able to avoid them on town meeting floor though, even a town meeting comprised of 400+ new members.

    There is no point in continuing to discuss this particular issue with you until you can provide answers to legitimate questions.

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  5. Two brief things I'd like to respond to since we seem to have problems communicating.
    First, your quote was not taken out of context or distorted, "my analogy" was clearly linked to the Lexington code which was referenced in the quote. I assume you understood they were one and the same.
    Secondly, it is premature to hammer for answers and specifics since we have yet to come to consensus on the problem at hand. Why try to discuss any resolutions when the problem is not agreed on? As long as you are accusing,let's be honest about the level of distortion and question-dodging that is happening on your end as well.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wow.

      All I will note is everything is out there for the readers to review and judge on their own.

      I am content to end it there.

      Delete
    2. "(I)t is premature to hammer for answers and specifics since we have yet to come to consensus on the problem at hand. Why try to discuss any resolutions when the problem is not agreed on? As long as you are accusing,let's be honest about the level of distortion and question-dodging that is happening on your end as well."

      Wow is right.

      Keep in mind FairAction Fairhaven, that it was YOU who proposed all of these Articles AND have judged people to have "Potential Conflicts of Interest" (completely in disagreement with the legal/statutory definition, I might add).

      As fas as accusing, distortion, AND question-dodging, I'm also pretty sure you hold the monopoly on that. Just look at your own Facebook page as the primary example.

      Just when I think I've heard it all, you amaze me with more.

      Delete

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